Wednesday, August 31, 2005

I'm going to repeat that, because that's the sort of thing that bears repeating
Fans of Lewis Black may recognize that headline. If you do, you may have some idea of what's coming.

A while back, I posted about Intelligent Design, and why I think "there is room to believe in both a creator God and Darwinian evolution."

In short order, I was challenged me, asserting, effectively, that since the Bible is the word of God, you have to believe that it's the word of God. Really, I'm not kidding—his entire argument uses the idea that, because the Bible says something happened, they happened; and because they happened, the Bible is accurate. It's a beautiful piece of circular logic. He asked:

How can this be so when the Bible specifically states that God created the heavens and the earth and everything within them in 6 days and on the seventh day he rested? There is no mention of evolution and it does not say "God created Man by way of many other species who came about through random genetic mutations influenced by a constantly changing environment". Had that been the case, that is the account we would have read in Bible class - the word of God Himself.
You can read my response here, if you like, in which I draw attention to a few serious problems with the Bible (where did Cain's wife come from; how did Noah fit 1.8 million species of insect on his ark, let alone all the large mammals). This was all 3.5 weeks ago.

Well, I finally got another response from my challenger. I will now post, in its entirety, his response (in which he ignores my question about Cain, and completely dodges the point of my question about Noah), followed by what I've already posted in reply to that. First, let's hear from Mr. Swipe:
rftr,

"So, although He revealed his actions to man, and man wrote them down as best he could—it was inevitable that man would screw up. Some concepts got jumbled, God was forced to use a concept of time to describe his creation of the earth, despite the fact that God most likely operates outside the confines of time—things got mixed up."

Now hold on a darn moment here. Did I read this right? You're saying that an omniscient divinity would have difficulty explaining His word to a creature He had made in his own image? "Some concepts got jumbled" - yeah, sure thing they did, buster. "Thou shalt not kill"...Heck, I'm really having trouble with that one ....could ya run it by me again a little slower?

Seems the only thinking getting jumbled 'round here is that in the poster's brain. You either believe it, or you don't. You're gettin' woolier than a lamb with split ends here, young fella. " For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."

Yep, there's plenty room for doubting in that.

Praying for you,

Bob
Now, I admit, I could have done better. I made it sound like God was incapable of explaining things to man—when what I intended to say was that man is incapable of understanding God. I apologize for that. However, Mr. Swipe is still an idiot. Here's what I wrote in response:
First, do me a favor Bob, and stop praying for me. If I'm going to hell, that's my business, not yours, you arrogant prick. Whatever happened to the sin of vanity? You've got it all figured out, eh? So... what keeps you from being omniscient?

The fact of the matter is, yes, God is omniscient. Man, unfortunately is not. Therefore, there are concepts out there, by definition, that God can understand and man cannot. It's simple logic, and if you can't follow it, well, then I can't help you.

Now, the next step is realizing that man's comprehension of the universe has grown steadily throughout human history. For centuries, even since recorded history began, man had an extremely limited view of the world around him. He believed that the immediate area was the extent of the world.

Next, let's address the Flood directly. These are things God said to Noah, correct? And they are recorded in the bible in the third person, correct? (i.e. not "God said to me," but "God said to Noah.")

So, when God said this, did he do it publicly? No, he really didn't. He told Noah, and Noah alone. So who is the guy that wrote it? Must be a descendant of Noah's, right, since Noah and his family repopulated the Earth?

In other words, that story was recorded by someone who wasn't there. Now, either God told him the story, or he heard it passed down from his ancestors.

If he heard it passed down from his ancestors, then he would have heard about people who could only say that everything they could see had been destroyed by a flood—seems the like the whole world to man of that age.

If God told him, then maybe God only said that he destroyed the whole world. You know, he wanted to put "the fear of God" into this guy and whoever read his book. WAIT! GOD WOULDN'T LIE ABOUT THAT!

Oh really? Who says God wouldn't lie? Where in the Bible does it say that God is always honest? Oh, and by the way, this is the guy that just wiped every species off the face of the earth—literally billions and billions of creatures—according to you. You think He's above a little fib?

My only point in all of this is that you should stop being so certain that you know everything. Life is about experience, and gaining knowledge. If you shut down what you know, and stop thinking about your faith, that's your choice—but don't expect me to do the same.

I have, in my life, doubted that God even exists. And when I started asking the questions, when I started analyzing the myths and dividing it from the truth, I came into a much more spiritual place in my life. I am a devoted Christian—and if I don't stone my brother for wearing clothes of two different weaves (remember, word of God!), you'll have to excuse me.
I welcome more comments, questions. But if you want to try and prove to me that the Bible is the direct word of God, save your breath—it can't be proven, and I'll never believe it.

God's way too omniscient to have written some of the contradictory crap that can be found in there.

1 comment:

Tanstaafl said...

That's lucky, because I'm wearing two different weaves today.